russell: HAHA, sorrie we can't stop them from crying, but we can do something to please them. It's a good practice to play at a similar level of your opponents so 1) you could make the game more enjoyable for other people and 2) you get to learn how to determine other people's level and adjust your strategy accordingly. Pros have their cons as well, such as they're also rushing back to rebuild their base once you leave the site, so you can always run back after pretending to leave them alone and kill them on the spot. This, is something you can't do to noobs as they'll just sit forever.
mousehole, I would occasionally host beta testings but that wont be anytime soon. Most likely it'll be sometime in March/April if not later than that.
Oh btw, if you want to know how certain thing works in the map, or you're a map maker and got some questions on something, please don't hesitate to ask.
I am a map maker I made a Cat n Mouse map. These are my questions I have. 1) How do I make my file unreadable for other people? 2) I don't understand switches..Please explain
After finishing your map and you decided to publish it. You can download a tool/program called Ubernation (google it ;-D). Run it and open your map, protect it, and save the map as another name. Then simply host the map that's saved by Ubernation.
Now, you should treat switches as binaries - they only have 2 states: ON or OFF, 1 or 0, True or False, whatever you wanna call them. To me, the only reason of using switches is for randomization (eg. randomly choose Cat). For example, if you want to randomly select a player from 8 to be a Cat, then you will need 3 switches. Let's use 1 and 0s for each switch in the following demonstration:
Suppose you have 3 switches and you have a trigger that randomize all 3. After each randomization, you'll have 2x2x2=8 different ON/OFF combinations, which is exactly what you want - you want each player with a representation of combination of switches, such as:
Player 1: 000 Player 2: 001 Player 3: 010 Player 4: 011 Player 5: 100 Player 6: 101 Player 7: 110 Player 8: 111
Of cos you dont have to make them like that, you can put Player 1 as 111 and so on. It's entirely up to you. One thing is that you always want to keep things simple and easy to remember, as you may notice the 1 combination is assigned to 1 player. So if you don't want to mix them up you better keep them in sequence like above.
Now to use the switches in the condition. How do we know which combo is it after randomize them? Here's a sample set of condition:
If... (conditions) Switch 1 is OFF Switch 2 is OFF Switch 3 is OFF Then... (actions) Player 1 is cat End
If... (conditions) Switch 1 is OFF Switch 2 is OFF Switch 3 is ON Then... (actions) Player 2 is cat End
Brandon, unfortunately there's no screenshot that would help you on this. Copy n Paste wont work either as the triggers involve switches which you have to create them as well.
Making maps is similar to computer programming (which I do alot), so the most basic thing you could do is to think of Switch (Location, and Unit and Player) as objects, and triggers are things that use to evaluate (eg. if Player 1 bring at least 1 Protoss Probe in SPAWN), and execute (eg. then Kill all Protoss Probe at SPAWN).
Maps are made with a bunch of triggers that carry the chain of events such as (if this then that, then if that then something else).
You'll have to refer to your computer teacher about computer programming, also, triggers are among the most intuitive level of programming. I think Blizzard is making maps in Starcraft2 to have a more advanced programming system (which means more complicated).
yo grrrr im thinkin about majoring in winter also as of now i have no idea wat so ever of how to build defense as mouse, when i say that i meant i dont even know how to NOT let the cat in my base. it'd be nice if u can walk me thru as mouse 1 time hehe
don't think of winter as another jungle as their game play are completely different.
The game play in Winter is NOT to prevent Cats from entering your base, that's why there aren't many walling mechanisms.
Winter is more of a micro/chickening, and more mind games such as faking cat's locations. Since the layout of the winter segregated the map into 4 sections (rather than in jungle which is 2 - top and bottom), with 2 cats, cat player can trick you into thinking he went out of base to lure you out of safe. Also, evasive running styles for Mice are more feasible in Winter than in Jungle as there are many blind spots that regular cats would miss.
The ability to fully use the terrain and the abilty to spread-out is the key in Winter.
its hard to dodge cat on winter since not many places are safe to mine, and safe places cannot be mined, not to mention if a pro's doin the cat splittin thing. also im stuck is wat are some ways to kill cat? its not explicit like jungle as in usin scv stack or zealot wat i figured out so far is reaver can be used quite efficiently to kill cats, but still, i would like to know more :)
there are plenty of ways to micro your probe with help of pyloning at certain places (not area). Also plz try upgrading to 1-1 then it will be a 2 hit kill. Note that Cat can also upgrade with dts. Also, top-left base is designed to be micro and fool around with cat. If you want challenge, get there and get 2 cats to chase you, it's fun and thrilling.
that's why the game play usually have 3 spots - 2 probes splitted, and a scv out there in wild. Use lifted buildings to gain visions at base entrances as well.
how to kill cat is the most not-intuitive part of the game. So far the cheesy nuking is available in winter, along with reaver, massive probes, mass marines (long and painful death), mass cannons, and tanks. This question plagues Jungle as well when you think of it, not that much of options to kill cat. There are 2 solutions, to make a cat-killer obvious in game, or to use an alternative method to determine cat's lose.
man i've been rly down lately theres just too much shit talks goin on and all those crap about "who's good and who's not" and everytime i can't prove a thing cuz im so inconsistent u know wat im talkin about, i mean i die so frickin often its not funny. and the only time i actually stays alive, i get bs'ed to be honest i am still kinda upset over that guy that bs'ed me cuz i told u i would like to show u that i can stay alive and do things, but that noob took the only chance i had away from me :/ im seriously consider quittin jungle, hate those big talkers and the expectations..
MouseHole: I'm not backing you on this one. Let's not count the time when noobs fed and you die to lings or w/e. How many times you die simply cuz you ran the wrong way or you started running too late?
The thing lies on how you want to prove that you aren't a noob. There's somthing I've stressed for the longest time, when you give advises to ppl, if they dont take it, forget it. Also, don't worrie about who's good and who's not. Reputations are built by other ppl, not yourself. For my case, I can't find a reason why can't I be a noob.
i know it's been a while, but i am still around, and i do like your improvements thus far. mouse hole, you say your friends, do not like it... thats because they cant get away with the tricks they used before, they are afraid of change, 5.0+ is more balanced. when i started playing it, everyone cried rigged, slowly but surely, they realized it was more balanced. in 2.2, its almost impossible to loose as a mouse, for me anyways, unless 4 people die and feed right off the bat. and i look forward to having fun with your 5.1 release be boy, thanks as always.
Sup Beboy! Great site. A couple suggestions for a "hardcore" tournament edition, remove dark archons (mael is for noobs); remove ghost for cat (ghost is bad manner), I agree with all your recommended plans for 2.2, keep it up. fix "meltdown" please no more glitches!! :( , if one mice uses 2 or more starports, increase mineral increase 1 per sec, I'll think of more later. would like to beta test this pro version, thx
I'm currently focusing on the remake of 2.2 (dubbed as Classic Jungle), any pro version s will have to wait.
One thing I need to clarify is that, the unit-limit in 2.2 will not make its way into Classic Jungle, along with the Stargate feeds to Cat. But then yah, this remake will serve as the core for future Jungle as I'm rewriting all codes from scratch on a new platform.
GotBomb, that depends on how you want to contribute in the development of maps. Most people out there contribute by simply playing my maps and leave valuable feedbacks in this website.
I am thinking to host a forum-based site for testers to download, and to report bugs.
Btw if u want, to make pro mode for you map, simply use move location trigger
Action (Move location on unit Marine at location (unused))
there is no real marine at that location, it just moves the location in the unused locatioin.
For cat option just have a ghost attack a civ, whoever gets the kill score can be cat, set kill score back to 0 if u need to.
tank mode set for afk, can only be used as flag mode, or you have no buildings and the mouse is removed, till ur back, create the mouse back to its mouse location.
use trigger like
Current player commands 1 mouse
Action move location location mouse on unit mouse
Current player commands 0 mouse Current player Command 1 Seige Tank (Seige Mode)
Do nothing
Current Player Commands 1 Seige Tank (Seige Mode)
Action Remove Unit Mouse at Mouse location
For all the location that requires that mouse be alive or dead simply put in each trigger
Current player Commands 0 Seige tank (Tank Mode),
it wont work if there is a siege mode and ther wont be any penalty
GotBomb, I do wish you to provide your ideas in a more abstract way. Providing codes wont help at all since I wont be using them before evaluating. It's always hurt to look at someone else' codes, so I would suggest you to give me ideas in written form.
Make a away from keyboard thing that removes mouse when its alive whenever mouse doesnt have any units or buildings, whenever he comes out of afk mode, mouse spawns right where he left it and unsaveable when its dead while afk mode. Make a switch for anti hack so host can turn it on or off. Gotenks gets dropped everytime and he doesnt hack. For hardcore mode that c.m. suggested just move the location off the shop area and have a option for hardcore at start. Take away the player saving certain players thing, it gets annoying having to call someone else to save a friend.
Gotbomb, there's no way i could tell whether a player is afk or not. I will need a set of conditions to detect whether or not the game should put the player as observer automatically. Also, the buildings/units is to prevent abuses of usage especially "get ob when mice is about to die".
As for antihack, I donno whether I'll keep them or not, as they tend to screw things up like preventing Mice to get saved. Also, they work at the very beginning of the game, so an on/off switch will render it useless. Gotenks could be using Mac to play sc. Any Mac players will get dropped by the antihack and there isn't a workaround.
I wont put a hardcore mode in Classic, but will do in 6.0 but that's too distant for now. We'll see by then.
Also, I've removed the "choose not to save certain player" due to the bug caused by antihack. Also, if I were to put it back, it's the person who saves get to choose who to save, so wont have to worry about not being able to save your "friends" unless you choose not to.
Also, please visit my forum at: http://scmaptest.freeforums.org/
sorrie Andy I dont typically use this blog anymore. Please post your further questions on http://scmaptest.freeforums.org/
As for your question, when a player leaves the game, all units/buildings will be given to Player 12 (Neutral). What you can do is to have a trigger that removes all P12's units/buildings every second. When dealing with P12's units/buildings you have to be careful NOT TO USE "any unit", as it will removes critters, minerals, and gas fields as they too belong to P12.
37 comments:
Everytime i cat this people cry rigged. how will we ever stop the newbs?
russell: HAHA, sorrie we can't stop them from crying, but we can do something to please them. It's a good practice to play at a similar level of your opponents so 1) you could make the game more enjoyable for other people and 2) you get to learn how to determine other people's level and adjust your strategy accordingly. Pros have their cons as well, such as they're also rushing back to rebuild their base once you leave the site, so you can always run back after pretending to leave them alone and kill them on the spot. This, is something you can't do to noobs as they'll just sit forever.
yo beboy, im lookin for ur random cnm winter
do u know where i can get it?
mousehole: I'm sorrie, the map's not available anymore. I'm currently planning a new one though. Suggestions are welcome~
oh, are u still makin random winter?
i'd like to help out when u are testin/makin the map
especially on the weekends
mousehole, I would occasionally host beta testings but that wont be anytime soon. Most likely it'll be sometime in March/April if not later than that.
Oh btw, if you want to know how certain thing works in the map, or you're a map maker and got some questions on something, please don't hesitate to ask.
I am a map maker I made a Cat n Mouse map. These are my questions I have.
1) How do I make my file unreadable for other people?
2) I don't understand switches..Please explain
Brandon,
After finishing your map and you decided to publish it. You can download a tool/program called Ubernation (google it ;-D). Run it and open your map, protect it, and save the map as another name. Then simply host the map that's saved by Ubernation.
Now, you should treat switches as binaries - they only have 2 states: ON or OFF, 1 or 0, True or False, whatever you wanna call them. To me, the only reason of using switches is for randomization (eg. randomly choose Cat). For example, if you want to randomly select a player from 8 to be a Cat, then you will need 3 switches. Let's use 1 and 0s for each switch in the following demonstration:
Suppose you have 3 switches and you have a trigger that randomize all 3. After each randomization, you'll have 2x2x2=8 different ON/OFF combinations, which is exactly what you want - you want each player with a representation of combination of switches, such as:
Player 1: 000
Player 2: 001
Player 3: 010
Player 4: 011
Player 5: 100
Player 6: 101
Player 7: 110
Player 8: 111
Of cos you dont have to make them like that, you can put Player 1 as 111 and so on. It's entirely up to you. One thing is that you always want to keep things simple and easy to remember, as you may notice the 1 combination is assigned to 1 player. So if you don't want to mix them up you better keep them in sequence like above.
Now to use the switches in the condition. How do we know which combo is it after randomize them? Here's a sample set of condition:
If... (conditions)
Switch 1 is OFF
Switch 2 is OFF
Switch 3 is OFF
Then... (actions)
Player 1 is cat
End
If... (conditions)
Switch 1 is OFF
Switch 2 is OFF
Switch 3 is ON
Then... (actions)
Player 2 is cat
End
I hope this clears things up a little.
Wow a lot to read! That helped a lot. Thanks for all the help.
WOW a lot of hard work. How did you go through this? Hey do you mind putting up a screenshot? It would help a lot
Brandon, unfortunately there's no screenshot that would help you on this. Copy n Paste wont work either as the triggers involve switches which you have to create them as well.
Making maps is similar to computer programming (which I do alot), so the most basic thing you could do is to think of Switch (Location, and Unit and Player) as objects, and triggers are things that use to evaluate (eg. if Player 1 bring at least 1 Protoss Probe in SPAWN), and execute (eg. then Kill all Protoss Probe at SPAWN).
Maps are made with a bunch of triggers that carry the chain of events such as (if this then that, then if that then something else).
You'll have to refer to your computer teacher about computer programming, also, triggers are among the most intuitive level of programming. I think Blizzard is making maps in Starcraft2 to have a more advanced programming system (which means more complicated).
yo grrrr im thinkin about majoring in winter also
as of now i have no idea wat so ever of how to build defense as mouse, when i say that i meant i dont even know how to NOT let the cat in my base.
it'd be nice if u can walk me thru as mouse 1 time hehe
don't think of winter as another jungle as their game play are completely different.
The game play in Winter is NOT to prevent Cats from entering your base, that's why there aren't many walling mechanisms.
Winter is more of a micro/chickening, and more mind games such as faking cat's locations. Since the layout of the winter segregated the map into 4 sections (rather than in jungle which is 2 - top and bottom), with 2 cats, cat player can trick you into thinking he went out of base to lure you out of safe. Also, evasive running styles for Mice are more feasible in Winter than in Jungle as there are many blind spots that regular cats would miss.
The ability to fully use the terrain and the abilty to spread-out is the key in Winter.
its hard to dodge cat on winter since not many places are safe to mine, and safe places cannot be mined, not to mention if a pro's doin the cat splittin thing. also im stuck is wat are some ways to kill cat? its not explicit like jungle as in usin scv stack or zealot
wat i figured out so far is reaver can be used quite efficiently to kill cats, but still, i would like to know more :)
there are plenty of ways to micro your probe with help of pyloning at certain places (not area). Also plz try upgrading to 1-1 then it will be a 2 hit kill. Note that Cat can also upgrade with dts.
Also, top-left base is designed to be micro and fool around with cat. If you want challenge, get there and get 2 cats to chase you, it's fun and thrilling.
that's why the game play usually have 3 spots - 2 probes splitted, and a scv out there in wild. Use lifted buildings to gain visions at base entrances as well.
how to kill cat is the most not-intuitive part of the game. So far the cheesy nuking is available in winter, along with reaver, massive probes, mass marines (long and painful death), mass cannons, and tanks. This question plagues Jungle as well when you think of it, not that much of options to kill cat. There are 2 solutions, to make a cat-killer obvious in game, or to use an alternative method to determine cat's lose.
man i've been rly down lately
theres just too much shit talks goin on and all those crap about "who's good and who's not"
and everytime i can't prove a thing cuz im so inconsistent
u know wat im talkin about, i mean i die so frickin often its not funny. and the only time i actually stays alive, i get bs'ed
to be honest i am still kinda upset over that guy that bs'ed me
cuz i told u i would like to show u that i can stay alive and do things, but that noob took the only chance i had away from me :/
im seriously consider quittin jungle, hate those big talkers and the expectations..
MouseHole: I'm not backing you on this one. Let's not count the time when noobs fed and you die to lings or w/e. How many times you die simply cuz you ran the wrong way or you started running too late?
The thing lies on how you want to prove that you aren't a noob. There's somthing I've stressed for the longest time, when you give advises to ppl, if they dont take it, forget it. Also, don't worrie about who's good and who's not. Reputations are built by other ppl, not yourself. For my case, I can't find a reason why can't I be a noob.
i know it's been a while, but i am still around, and i do like your improvements thus far. mouse hole, you say your friends, do not like it... thats because they cant get away with the tricks they used before, they are afraid of change, 5.0+ is more balanced. when i started playing it, everyone cried rigged, slowly but surely, they realized it was more balanced. in 2.2, its almost impossible to loose as a mouse, for me anyways, unless 4 people die and feed right off the bat. and i look forward to having fun with your 5.1 release be boy, thanks as always.
glad that you like this, russell. I'm so happy that 5.1 is nearly done, and gathering ideas for 6.0.
Basically I will make 6.0 from scratch, rather than using 5.1 as the base.
Sup Beboy! Great site. A couple suggestions for a "hardcore" tournament edition, remove dark archons (mael is for noobs); remove ghost for cat (ghost is bad manner), I agree with all your recommended plans for 2.2, keep it up. fix "meltdown" please no more glitches!! :( , if one mice uses 2 or more starports, increase mineral increase 1 per sec, I'll think of more later. would like to beta test this pro version, thx
--- c.m.
I'm currently focusing on the remake of 2.2 (dubbed as Classic Jungle), any pro version s will have to wait.
One thing I need to clarify is that, the unit-limit in 2.2 will not make its way into Classic Jungle, along with the Stargate feeds to Cat. But then yah, this remake will serve as the core for future Jungle as I'm rewriting all codes from scratch on a new platform.
sup befat its been a while
i know u miss me so much for not being online but i will be back in two weeks :)
hows everything going?
im looking forward to classic when im back =D
This is t(u here lol, anyways, can i help make cat n mouse?
btw i got a good trigger you can add
Players (1,3,5,7) or
Players (Some randomized switches that represents players) exp switchs 1 3 5 7)
Condition (Current players Brings at least 1 Mouse to Save point)
Or
Players (2 4 6 8)
Condition (Switches 1, 3, 5, or 7 is Set)
and
Condition (Allied Player Brings at least 1 Mouse to Save point)
for both
Condition (Current player brings 0,Any units to Location "Free space")
And
Condition (Current player Command at least 1 Flag)
Action (Create 1 Anyunit you choose, for current player at that free location)
Preserve();
The Next trigger
Players(1 3 5 7)
Condition (Current player brings at least 1 Marine or any other units, to location that free space)
Action (Remove Flag at Save Point)
Action (Create 1 Mouse for Current Player at Save point)
Preserve Trigger();
GotBomb, that depends on how you want to contribute in the development of maps. Most people out there contribute by simply playing my maps and leave valuable feedbacks in this website.
I am thinking to host a forum-based site for testers to download, and to report bugs.
To prevent newb save, maybe add a tank that changes modes that sense your away from keyboard so u wont get saved.
oh ok lol :)
More ideas comming soon ;)
GotBomb, for the codes you've provided, anything involves "Allies" wont work in my maps (especially Classic) due to some nasty codes I put in.
Btw if u want, to make pro mode for you map, simply use move location trigger
Action (Move location on unit Marine at location (unused))
there is no real marine at that location, it just moves the location in the unused locatioin.
For cat option just have a ghost attack a civ, whoever gets the kill score can be cat, set kill score back to 0 if u need to.
tank mode set for afk, can only be used as flag mode, or you have no buildings and the mouse is removed, till ur back, create the mouse back to its mouse location.
use trigger like
Current player commands 1 mouse
Action move location location mouse on unit mouse
Current player commands 0 mouse
Current player Command 1 Seige Tank (Seige Mode)
Do nothing
Current Player Commands 1 Seige Tank (Seige Mode)
Action Remove Unit Mouse at Mouse location
For all the location that requires that mouse be alive or dead simply put in each trigger
Current player Commands 0 Seige tank (Tank Mode),
it wont work if there is a siege mode and ther wont be any penalty
Thats all my idea for today, and mb iforgot to put Current player commands at least 1 flag) then u cannot create a mouse after comming out of AFK mode
GotBomb, I do wish you to provide your ideas in a more abstract way. Providing codes wont help at all since I wont be using them before evaluating. It's always hurt to look at someone else' codes, so I would suggest you to give me ideas in written form.
Make a away from keyboard thing that removes mouse when its alive whenever mouse doesnt have any units or buildings, whenever he comes out of afk mode, mouse spawns right where he left it and unsaveable when its dead while afk mode. Make a switch for anti hack so host can turn it on or off. Gotenks gets dropped everytime and he doesnt hack. For hardcore mode that c.m. suggested just move the location off the shop area and have a option for hardcore at start. Take away the player saving certain players thing, it gets annoying having to call someone else to save a friend.
Gotbomb, there's no way i could tell whether a player is afk or not. I will need a set of conditions to detect whether or not the game should put the player as observer automatically. Also, the buildings/units is to prevent abuses of usage especially "get ob when mice is about to die".
As for antihack, I donno whether I'll keep them or not, as they tend to screw things up like preventing Mice to get saved. Also, they work at the very beginning of the game, so an on/off switch will render it useless. Gotenks could be using Mac to play sc. Any Mac players will get dropped by the antihack and there isn't a workaround.
I wont put a hardcore mode in Classic, but will do in 6.0 but that's too distant for now. We'll see by then.
Also, I've removed the "choose not to save certain player" due to the bug caused by antihack. Also, if I were to put it back, it's the person who saves get to choose who to save, so wont have to worry about not being able to save your "friends" unless you choose not to.
Also, please visit my forum at:
http://scmaptest.freeforums.org/
How does your trigger work for removing the buildings/units of people who left the game work?
Please answer my question!!
sorrie Andy I dont typically use this blog anymore. Please post your further questions on http://scmaptest.freeforums.org/
As for your question, when a player leaves the game, all units/buildings will be given to Player 12 (Neutral). What you can do is to have a trigger that removes all P12's units/buildings every second. When dealing with P12's units/buildings you have to be careful NOT TO USE "any unit", as it will removes critters, minerals, and gas fields as they too belong to P12.
Post a Comment