Alright, Jungle 5.0 is out of door, now what?
A list of things to add to both Jungle and Winter and here's the list:
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Jungle 5.1
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I have started a new post for this as the development has started.
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Winter 3.0
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- Easy mode and Hard mode, just like in Jungle.
- Better AntiFEED based on cat's movements near the safe
- Removing both "Confused Dog" and "Confused Bull Dog" spells in favor to a new transformation ability of Cat's ultralisks
- Medics at safe to heal cat, just like in Jungle 5.0.
- New God unit to replace DeathGod (Wraith)
- Possibly new creative spells
- Probably a better AntiBS trigger
- AntiFEED codes that kills obvious feedages like afk'er at start/safe.
I'm still dropping and gathering ideas so nothing has been done to either of the maps. I'm currently working on a Macro/Micro map, using Python as basis, and I'll probably start the jungle/winter projects soon after.
:edit Mar 12,08: I gave up on the Macro/Micro map as I couldn't fix the Protoss Upgrade issue when the Forge/CyberCore is disabled and enabled. And guys, any ideas that you would like to drop in? Make a comment~
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19 comments:
on ur next revise
i think it would be a better idea to make scv's dmg less
i know ppl that uses the scv stackin glitch to kill cat
no matter how much upgrade the cat has
its always 5 second k.o. with 85+ scvs
frustratin for cats
u think?
Yes it is definitely frustrating. My intention for SCV's high attack is 1-hit kill on Nexus so mice don't have to risk using probe to kill it.
Statistically, for a mice to have 50 SCVs, it'll cost the mice ranging from $1250 to $2750 depending on which mode the mice is in. It'll do 5 damage to Cat for each SCV unless Mice upgrade attack, and will kill Cat in less than 1 minute.
It is definitely a nice thing to revisit, but since I do want to keep the ability for SCV to kill Nexus, I'll rather introduce a new spell for cat to simply break the stacking for SCV.
And no, I'm keeping the gas there so stacking SCV is still possible~
I hope this will help lower the frustration over this tactics.
oh maybe u should reconsider disabling hallu from templar
becuz sometimes cats (decent to good) gets feed off rly quickly from noobs or u have a bad start
hallu is the only way to give mice more time to organize a comeback
thats just my opinion
Yes it is a very bad game that you have like 2 or 3 noobs feed off Cat at early game, and hallus maybe the best saviour (if you could save up enough mana that is). The benefits of keeping this spell is relatively insignificant to a very very gay gameplay that, a Mice player simply buy massive templars, and traps cat with eternal hallus.
I know the same happens to Maelstorms and yes I really hate seeing Mice do it (even when I'm mice), but to a lesser extent Maelstorm lasts like couple of seconds, but hallus last 1+ minute. It's the length of each hallu that makes me consider it out-of-the-game.
i mean u can always limit the max amount to 2 or 3 per mice player
other than that i dont think its a big problem
plus
but if u rly want to disable hallu
i think u should just take out hallu and leave storm as it is
cuz some units u created can only be killed by storm/feedback
I tried limiting in version 2.x, and it just limits too much. It's basically a balance between "I should be able to do w/e I want", and "man this is gay, this shouldn't happen". I could raise hallu's mana all the way up to max, or make temps extremely expensive, but hallu itself in this game, especially the length of time of this spell, is too long. I really think it's the duration that makes it not suitable in the game.
So I'm really taking hallu out (like 90+%), and yes, I'm keeping storm cuz it's a much needed mechanism.
One more thing I do have to add, I was naive and thought Cat could manage to fend off a group of stacked SCVs (cuz they're 1-hit kill anyways). The fact is that, usually ppl would partner like 10 zealots along with the SCVs, which makes Cat jumps constantly while killing off SCVs and being hit by lots.
I really see the needs of decreasing the attack of SCVs to make it less lethal. But the new damage is to be discussed. I have my eyes on 22-25 range. Any suggestions?
im thinkin minimize it as much as possible
since nexus only has 15 hp early on
i mean after like
5 or so upgrades
12 dollar just dont do that much for cats anymore
so 20s is wat im thinkin
cuz players who know wat they are doin will also add mael in the scv chain show so..
20ish is my target too. I will have to see how many armor does Nexus have (if any). Also, the feeds don't necessary be $12 for Nexus throughout the whole game (in Hard mode). The feeds increase as Cat kills more things (even not much, but it adds up, that's why Cat has high upgrades nowadays).
personally the biggest problem i see on bnet is not the unbalances within the game but rather that nobody is willing to try out ur new versions
i know too many good players that only stays in the level of 2.2 and i tried hostin 5.0 but all i got is noobs that only join 1 game for fun
most people still think 2.2 is more fun because something I've changed, including the layout of the side-bases, Ghost now cost 3DTs, and etc...
Most importantly, 5.0 fixes a lot (but not all) cheesy tactics that makes the map itself unbalance, which most people don't like. We all love messing Cat around and we always liked how easy being Mice in 2.2 (unless when you're part with noobs).
did u change the sidebase's layout becuz its too ez for mice?
personally i liked the old 1 better
oh is there any chance i can get that lost 2.3 version? i'd like to check it out
I changed them cuz they're too ez yet a bit too hard for both mice and cat.
The side bases used to have shorter distance between base entrance and side exit, thus in an early game pylonless dogfight it'll be challenging (ie: mice start losing $$ after building 38th pylon in hard mode). While, Cat finds it a bit harder to break into the base since it is much easier to wall.
I changed the layout based on these 2 aspects to turn things around. Most mice don't welcome this change since it is harder to wall.
I'm planning to keep it, but I'll have a vote on this in my google forum sometime in April.
And no, let the lost version 2.3 be lost. I don't see much difference between build 55 (2.2) and build 56 (2.3). I suspect I just incremented the version as I was planning to make 2.3 but eventually jumped into 3.0.
oh and one more thing i hope u can take into consideration is the problem is the strategy of massive zerglings
for cats it is really annoyin for mice to get zergs and trap cat into 1 place and do w/e they want with the cat
I'm getting the alpha map ready and beta will follow soon once all new spells and features are in place.
One of the Cat's new spells is designed specifically to counter mass zergling (and something else as well), provided that Cat doesn't suck (ie: cat has 1+ DT).
beBoy, I have created a Starcraft map and was wondering how to make it uneditable. I have a lot of map stealerz taking my maps and creating their own. Also I have a cat n mouse ver. Was wondering if you would like to use some ideas from it.
---Death_Gods101
I would recommend Uberation 2 or 3. You could google them and download them at manu places.
You could express your ideas in here and we'll have our discussion from there onwards. Thanks~
Thanks for the help!
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